Discussions

Religion ?vs? Spirituality

Posted by amzolt • 6/15/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Tags: religion, Spirituality

Some folks cleave to Religion.

Some to Spirituality.

Some say it's either/or.

Some embrace both.

How 'bout you ?

~ Alex

User Comments

6/15/08

globalgirl

Spirituality. My faith is my core of my living and air I breathe.

[reply]
6/15/08

ravenscawl

Both

[reply]
6/15/08

voodooKobra

www.blogcatalog.com/group/religious-debate

Before this becomes a secularist vs. spiritualist vs. religion debate, I should drop this link.

[reply]
1. 7/23/08
  
  Dukepro25
  
  Voodoo, you're such a kill joy.
6/15/08

timethief

Here's the link to a 4 day old thread on the very same topic www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/religion-vs-spirituality
Here's a link to all the threads on the subject www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/search.php?q=religion spirituality
Here's a link to the 323 blogs on the same subject www.blogcatalog.com/search/spirituality
I see your blog is also on the same subject too. If your wish to promote it on the forum the correct category for your post would be Shameless Blog Promotion.
Happy blogging

[reply]
1. 6/15/08
  
  amzolt
  
  timethief,
  I wasn't promoting my blog (except that being on this site and communicating does it naturally).
  I was beginning a ciscussion on a subject dear to my heart.
  Thank you for reminding me how many others feel the same way.
  
  ~ Alex
6/15/08

gerryPlanetEarth

Spirituality...That is sort of a vague term that is widely used...But what does it really mean ?

[reply]
6/15/08

kdawg68

have faith in the BC discussion search feature.

[reply]
6/15/08

robinj

I think both provide tools to find your answers they are not the answer and whatever one works for you thats okay

[reply]
6/15/08

timethief

@amzolt
I just stumbled a very good post by a BC member on this subject this morning. You can find it here. guidetolifeblog.com/blog4/?p=59

[reply]
1. 6/15/08
  
  amzolt
  
  timethief,
  
  Thanks a heap for that link !
  I immediately added the blog to my RSS Reader...
  
  ~ Alex
6/15/08

LGramlich

As a scientific rationalist, I don't think it's either/or.
(Note that "scientific rationalist" isn't a formal label, it's just a fair description.)

[reply]
6/15/08

amzolt

gerryPlanetEarth,
I feel spirituality is the inner core of the outward form--religion.

~ Alex

[reply]
1. 6/15/08
  
  globalgirl
  
  Yes, religion, in my opinion, shackles. Spirituality is freeing on the INSIDE, as well as the outside.
2. 6/15/08
  
  gerryPlanetEarth
  
  Beautiful words but I still do not understand what people mean when they say they are spiritual...
6/15/08

SolReka

I don't believe in religion, but I do believe in the spirituality of man.

My definition of spirituality - tapping into the resonant frequencies of the Superluminal Universe, after all we are just bundles/balls of energy riding on the aetheral planes of this Universe

[reply]
6/15/08

rearvumirr

Spirituality ~ If I went with Religion I risk losing the foundation of my faith

[reply]
6/15/08

nardeeisms

Spirituality - Nards

[reply]
6/15/08

amzolt

From the guy who started this discussion:

So far, it's leaning toward Spirituality and away from Religion.

What, in your opinion is "wrong" with Religion. Not with the members of various Faiths but with Religion, per se...?

~ Alex

[reply]
1. 6/15/08
  
  gerryPlanetEarth
  
  I think the basic problem is simply religions are only as good as their users...
6/15/08

balidreamhome

spirituality, as I used to be very religion person, but I found out there are many cases and dispute in this subject and even now in my country there is a big dispute about religion, so I became more into spirituality and actually I am agnostic, as I do not like being 'exclusive' in religion stuff.

[reply]
6/16/08

richrf

Hi,

I think, it fair use of the term, a religion is something that encompasses a group of people who share some core views concerning the nature of life and the universe, what may exist after life ends - and what may have existed before life begins. Fundamental to any religion are these core ideas. These ideas may evolve over time (as it has in the Christian religions), but all members share some element of the religion, so that they can say that they belong to that religion. Usually, there are leaders within the group, who act as the focal point for religious observation.

So, there lies the rub for me. I do not want to embrace any core value, that I cannot personal change as I wish when I wish. I do not want anyone interpreting how I should be viewing the nature of life or the universe. I wish to evolve my views in my own way, in my own time, in any direction that I wish. I desire the flexibility to change and grow at the pace that is appropriate for my life's journey.

Therefore, I a spiritual person, who does not embrace any religion that I feel may constrain my own spiritual growth. Of course, this is my own perspective, which others may or may not share. Everyone grows in their own way, in their own time, in their own space.

Rich

[reply]
7/23/08

Liara5

Human beings are conditioned to think along the lines of duality. This means they believe they must make choices, sense separation or fragmented ideas. Another view is only unity exists.

Spirituality, at the core, is grounded in love and freedom. Religion is grounded in "human" interpretation of spiritual ideas, but hinging on fear, power dynamics- politics, and unrecognized personal agreements with the ego and psyche. Domesticated human beings use religion to impose their beliefs on spirituality when spirituality was originally offered freely without emotion.

[reply]
1. 7/23/08
  
  amzolt
  
  Liara,
  
  Again, whether I believe all you say or not, you write so compellingly it makes me ponder deeply...
  
  Thank you!
7/23/08

kevinatserieatalk

Why is this an either / or question?

[reply]
1. 7/23/08
  
  amzolt
  
  Actually, what the original post said was:
  
  Some folks cleave to Religion.
  
  Some to Spirituality.
  
  Some say it's either/or.
  
  Some embrace both.
  
  How 'bout you ?
7/23/08

nardeeisms

Both...However, spirituality over religion...Hands down! @Alex - good to see ya - Nards

[reply]
1. 7/23/08
  
  amzolt
  
  Thanks for weighing in, Nards!
7/23/08

kevinatserieatalk

def'n

spirituality

Main Entry: spir·i·tu·al·i·ty
Pronunciation: \ˌspir-i-chə-ˈwa-lə-tē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural spir·i·tu·al·i·ties
Date: 15th century
1 : something that in ecclesiastical law belongs to the church or to a cleric as such
2 : clergy
3 : sensitivity or attachment to religious values
4 : the quality or state of being spiritual

[reply]
1. 7/23/08
  
  ravenscawl
  
  Both are but interpretation for the paradox that is life. Albeit that one is personal without confirmation, while the other is often personified by conformation!
  
  Of the two, Religion is empty without Spirituality.
2. 7/23/08
  
  amzolt
  
  So where's the definition of religion?
  
  ;-)
3. 7/23/08
  
  kevinatserieatalk
  
  @ amzolt
  within the spirituality one
  
  the problem isn't with religion per say but the loss of mysticism in Western peoples hence the self-hating attitude and denial of where we are from, our own traditions and culture, and the seeking out of what is thought lacking in Eastern religions containing spirituality.
4. 7/23/08
  
  ravenscawl
  
  religion –noun
  1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
  2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
  3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
  4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
  5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
  6.something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7/23/08

kdawg68

Who dug this up from June? Did we really need more religious/anti-religous arguing?

[reply]
1. 7/23/08
  
  amzolt
  
  Sure hope we don't argue!
  
  Just looking for the spread of ideas.
7/23/08

TheBigRuski

I'd like to answer this question with some scripture. But, first let me say "religion" has caused a lot of damage. However, "faith" or one's spirituality based on seeking truth can do more good than we can even understand sometimes. It's also important to recognize that the pursuit of truth, doesn't mean pursuing relative truth, or the truth as you know it now, but real truth.

What does the Bible say about "religion"?

Here is Jesus talking to his disciples and a crowd that gathered:

"Don't set people up as experts over your life, letting them tell you what to do. Save that authority for God; let him tell you what to do. No one else should carry the title of 'Father'; you have only one Father, and he's in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

"I've had it with you! You're hopeless, you religion scholars, you Pharisees! Frauds! Your lives are roadblocks to God's kingdom. You refuse to enter, and won't let anyone else in either. "You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You go halfway around the world to make a convert, but once you get him you make him into a replica of yourselves, double-damned." (Matthew 23:13-15)

These verses were from "The Message" Bible version. I think it pretty much sums up the "importance" of religion. In my case, and I know many others, I "cleave" as best as I can to Jesus, not religion.

[reply]
1. 7/23/08
  
  amzolt
  
  Do you have any references from other Holy Books?
2. 7/23/08
  
  TheBigRuski
  
  Sorry, not at this time.
3. 7/23/08
  
  morgantj
  
  [Do you have any references from other Holy Books?]
  
  I'm curious, what exactly makes a book holy?
4. 7/23/08
  
  TheBigRuski
  
  me too!
7/23/08

TheBigRuski

Thank you amzolt for the topic! I've posted about this on one of my blogs.

Everyone is invited to join me here, in my post title What Did Jesus Say About Religion?

alexanderwrites.blogspot.com/2008/07/what-did-jesus-say-about-religion.html

[reply]
7/23/08

owlmon

faith in a Love ruled by a supreme source of all matter is closer to spirituality than all the Religious congregations efforts combined.

Religions are like makeup whereas spirituality is the face...

To get a clean view of the spirit you have to wash off the makeup...

Blessings from Minister Belanger..owlmon@gmail.com www.allcreatorsgifts.org

[reply]
7/23/08

timethief

Do the "religiously fettered," who have dominated this forum for two weeks now and who have stooped to resurrecting dead threads to necro-post to them have to be pandered to?

Is posting to such threads likely to enhance our BC experience?

[reply]
7/23/08

TheBigRuski

Just wanted to go on record that any inference that anyone talking about their faith is trying to "poison" members "BC experience" is a gross mischaracterization.

I respect the BC community and appreciate the opportunities it affords. However, there are people here dealing in hate when it comes to anyone expressing contrary views to their own.

[reply]
7/23/08

timethief

comment removed by the community.

[reply]
1. 7/23/08
  
  TheBigRuski
  
  I thought "resurrecting dead threads" or in this case a closed thread was forbidden in your rule book.
  
  I believe the behavior of following people's comments with accusations of "trolling and spamming" is a very sad practice.
  
  I also believe that mocking a commentator by repetitively invoking the question of the "Holy Spirit of God" is not only mean spirited...it is very un-loving. It is a mocking of Christians...and sadly, could be seen as blasphemous as well.
2. 7/23/08
  
  timethief
  
  comment removed by the community.
3. 7/23/08
  
  kevinatserieatalk
  
  why do you continually build up these strawmen arguments?? Sorry but I just don't see what you have implied at all TT against TBR.
  
  Show me something of substance before labelling TBR a troll or spamming.
4. 7/23/08
  
  timethief
  
  substance -> www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/entry/religious-debate-could-use-a-christian-mo...
5. 7/23/08
  
  kevinatserieatalk
  
  now come on, you are giving goodknife extra work as moderator, he just removed that link TT from your previous post and I simply don't see what you are implying of TBR from that one discussion.
7/23/08

Dukepro25

As I have discovered...

One can be very religious and not have a shred of spirituality about them.

And visa versa...

A person can be very spiritual, and can in no way be religious.

But, if I was to favor one or the other, I would pick spirituality, simply because one can be spiritual and not religious. Religion is not a prerequisite to spirituality. But, if one decides to be religious, often times...either spirituality follows, or that religious practice is substituted for spirituality and spirituality is lost.

[reply]
1. 7/23/08
  
  TheBigRuski
  
  Great observation!
2. 7/23/08
  
  kevinatserieatalk
  
  but that would mean spirituality always goes hand in hand with morality and I have seen and read from those who consider themselves spiritual greatly lacking in the morality department.
  
  truly visa versa would be
  
  very religious and very spiritual
  and
  no way religious and no way spiritual
3. 7/23/08
  
  Dukepro25
  
  I never said spirituality goes hand in hand with morality.
  
  Morality is a good thing, but that isn’t a prerequisite to spirituality either.
  
  "truly visa versa would be
  
  very religious and very spiritual
  and
  no way religious and no way spiritual"
  
  Those would be the extremes yes.
4. 7/23/08
  
  kevinatserieatalk
  
  @Duke,
  
  would you say virtue is a characteristic of spirituality?
5. 7/23/08
  
  Dukepro25
  
  It would be an obvious byproduct of being spiritual, yes.
  
  But it is not a prerequisite.
6. 7/23/08
  
  kevinatserieatalk
  
  @Duke,
  
  boy oh boy you don't know how religious you sound at the moment, ie faith alone. (replace spiritual with faith, and virtue with works)
7. 7/23/08
  
  Dukepro25
  
  How am I being religious?
  
  You can twist the words how ever you wish.
  
  FYI: Spirituality does not equal faith.
8. 7/23/08
  
  kevinatserieatalk
  
  "FYI: Spirituality does not equal faith."
  
  that is but one opinion amongst many, it is also not the norm.
  
  from a Christian perpective "faith is the substance of things hoped for"
  
  the supernatural is pure spirit, and Christians have the hope of partaking of this divine nature hence a spirituality.
9. 7/23/08
  
  Dukepro25
  
  So, you are saying that Buddhists are not spiritual?
  
  That spirituality is strictly Christian?
  
  Spirituality does not equal faith.
  
  Spirituality is the action of being in contact with your spiritual side.
  
  Verses, being strictly religious and just doing, thus ignoring your spirit.
  
  "The Church" does not own the rights to spirituality.
  
  Spirituality is like freedom of choice, personal.
  
  Besides - Since when have you seen me as “Normal”? lol
10. 7/23/08
  
  kevinatserieatalk
  
  "So, you are saying that Buddhists are not spiritual?" - can't voice an opinion on that however I can say Buddhism is more about self-enlightment and self-enlightment doesn't necessarily equal spirituality. We are of the natural.
  
  "That spirituality is strictly Christian?" answer nope
  
  "Spirituality does not equal faith." already covered this try again
  
  "[The Church] does not own the rights to spirituality." nor do individuals
  
  "Spirituality is like freedom of choice, personal." - you mean freewill?
  
  "Besides - Since when have you seen me as “Normal”?" - don't know you from Adam to jump to any conclusions about you physically, mentally or spiritually
11. 7/23/08
  
  Dukepro25
  
  lol
  
  I respect your opinion on the matter.
  
  Come back again now, yah hear?
12. 7/23/08
  
  kevinatserieatalk
  
  proper syntax is
  
  "can I get an, Amen?"
  
  but I stand ya, yah hear.
7/23/08

amzolt

Morgantj,

If you put the words "holy book" into Wikipedia, you get this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_book

[reply]
1. 7/23/08
  
  TheBigRuski
  
  Yes, but even they redirected to "religious text"...something a bit more acceoptable for some of us not wanting to give a "Holy" designation to anything...not wanting to appear self righteous or self appointed to say so.
2. 7/23/08
  
  amzolt
  
  At least they seem to give the Prophet-Founders their due..... (somewhat...)
7/23/08

amzolt

timetheif,

If you don't like this discussion, why did you come back?

[reply]
7/23/08

morgantj

I don't think I am partial to either. However, I am in "awe" of the grandness of the universe.

[reply]
1. 7/23/08
  
  amzolt
  
  Ah! Just looking at the night sky induces a deep spiritual feeling!!
2. 7/23/08
  
  morgantj
  
  If that is what it is to be spiritual, then I am very. I can look and feel and practically become the tree branches and leaves blowing in the wind, I feel one with the wind, the tree, the branches. At the beach, I feel the awesomeness of depths of the ocean, the surface, the crashing of waves, I am the sand and the ocean. I feel a "oneness." with nature. If that is spiritual, then I am extremely.
3. 7/24/08
  
  morgantj
  
  I should add that I speak of this as a natural feeling, not supernatural.
7/24/08

amzolt

morgantj,

Added your blog to my RSS Reader.

[reply]
7/24/08

weblogian

I think in thread like religion.. The one who start should tell first about what he believe

[reply]
1. 7/24/08
  
  Dukepro25
  
  Not a bad idea!
2. 7/24/08
  
  amzolt
  
  There's already enough argument in this thread.
  
  I didn't say what I believe because I wanted *unbiased* responses, not people getting off on arguing...
3. 7/24/08
  
  Dukepro25
  
  This is also true.
  
  Hmmmm...
4. 7/24/08
  
  timethief
  
  @weblogian
  "I think in thread like religion.. The one who start should tell first about what he believe"
  
  I agree with you. However, most people posting religious threads on this forum prefer not to declare their own beliefs. They take the same position that amzolt has taken regarding "unabiased" responses. Hence, those who voluntarily respond to "vague" talking points have no idea what belief system the OP has embraced, if any, and they have no idea what use is ever made of their response.
  
  Setting that aside, it's simple to click on any BC username and find their blog. Then you can view both the blog and the tag cloud in the sidebar.
  www.bahai.org/
  
  FWIW the BC searchbox turns up 2 other blogs registered here that also use the tag Bahai www.blogcatalog.com/search/Bahai/
7/24/08

acousticguitarist

Both are totally deluded

[reply]
1. 7/24/08
  
  timethief
  
  @acousticguitarist
  I sincerely believe that we are all deluded but that few of us are aware of it.
7/24/08

chapagain

I love spirituality.. i also have a blog dedicated to spirituality.. have a look.. satya.chapagain.com.np

[reply]
1. 7/24/08
  
  amzolt
  
  Just added your blog to my RSS Reader...
7/24/08

amzolt

timethief,

What if, inspite of my being a Baha'i, I really did want folks *unbiased* opinions?

[reply]
7/24/08

amzolt

Everyone Else In This Discussion,

Does it matter what Faith I am (or no Faith) to the actions you take in answering the original questions?

[reply]
7/24/08

amzolt

I might add that if "Baha'i" in my tag cloud somehow discredits what I say, I should warn you all (especially timethief) that my tag cloud, which was referenced, has all these "discrediting" words:

Bahá'í Baha'i International Community blog body broken broken heart business crisis drugs faith food global god heart hepatitis C hep c human human rights justice life love man mercy pain peace poet poetry pray prayer praying religion rights soul spirit spiritual spirituality suffer suffering treatment un unity war woman women world

[reply]
7/24/08

keyster94

I am spiritual. I don't really affiliate with any religion. My experience with organized religions is that they are more interested in gaining wealth and being exclusionary. They often think they are better than anyone in another religion.

For me, I've always been drawn to more earth-based religions that truly come from spirituality and peace within.

At the same time, I don't judge people who are very religious as long as they can respect my beliefs at the same time. This is something I am hard-pressed to find.

[reply]
7/24/08

timethief

@amzolt
I'm entitled to my opinion although it may differ from yours. I would prefer that those who post religious questions declare their own belief system up front. I gave the new blogger weblogian instructions that other bloggers are already well aware of.

From the OP:
Some folks cleave to Religion.
Some to Spirituality.
Some say it's either/or.
Some embrace both.
How 'bout you ?

I come from a very large family full of religious people (Christian Evangelical fundamentalists), who are not IMO in touch with their spiritual nature at all. The religious people who comprise both sides of my family are loathe to even learn how to meditate because they say such a practice is "not of God". This is despite the fact that New Testament writings indicate that Jesus instructed his disciples to "meditate".

The greatest barrier I had to discovering my spiritual nature was all the religious doctrine, dogma, rituals, myths, reverence for symbols, objects and certain people, and doctrines about deities and afterlife that I had been brainwashed with from infancy onwards. However, once I severed the chains of religion I quickly learned how to meditate.

I'm an extremely spiritual person, who does not believe in a Supreme being and who has utterly rejected the doctrine, dogma and all the accouterments of institutionalized religion.

I believe ONLY in what I personally experience. My personal experience is that once individuality, personality, and ego are entirely extinguished via meditation, I experience -- pure consciousness.

In other words, what I experience is that when I meditate and all the things associated with the self like greed, anger, hate, etc, etc - dissolve is that there really is no self, there is no distinct being that is separate from the universal stream of pure consciousness.

[reply]
1. 7/25/08
  
  amzolt
  
  timethief,
  
  I appreciate your taking time to reveal your beliefs!
  
  I am a Baha'i and I abhor religious imitation based on past perversions of universal truths.
  
  I uphold the principle of independent investigation of truth.
  
  Also, if a person adheres to a religion that is based on imitation (which was based on imitation [which was based on imitation]) I feel they would be much better off with no religion...
7/25/08

amzolt

timethief,

What does this sentence mean?

"I gave the new blogger weblogian instructions that other bloggers are already well aware of."

[reply]
1. 7/25/08
  
  timethief
  
  I'm so glad to hear this:
  "I am a Baha'i and I abhor religious imitation based on past perversions of universal truths. I uphold the principle of independent investigation of truth."
  
  You also asked: What does this sentence mean?
  "I gave the new blogger weblogian instructions that other bloggers are already well aware of."
  
  It means that I told weblogian how to click a BC username, find a blog and examine what was in the blog. You see I'm a blogging tips blogger. I'm in the habit of telling new members to use the BC features as many of them don't catch onto these things themselves. This is one of my blogs onecoolsite.wordpress.com
7/25/08

kenjebz

Religion won't save us, our faith will. but it requires a correct religion to have a stronger spirituality, thus making our choices right, going to Heaven.

jbsolis.blogspot.com

[reply]
1. 7/25/08
  
  Dukepro25
  
  Bah! Correct religion.
7/25/08

friedclyde

serotonin and spirituality

[reply]
7/25/08

amzolt

Thanks for clearing up the sentence I didn't get...

Added onecoolsite.wordpress.com to my RSS Reader.

[reply]