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Opinions = intelligence?
Posted by kevingoodman • 7/20/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Some people equate those who have strong opinions with being intelligent. I had a philosophy professor say it’s usually just the opposite. He claimed that by having an opinion you’re no longer open to accept different perceptions or truths. I tend to agree with this and I also believe that the truth has many different faces and angles and also languages not to mention interpretations.
What do you think do Opinions = intelligence or hinder intelligence?
User Comments
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I think it depends on the method a person used to form their opinion.
When my wife and I were first married, we had an apartment in Southern California. Our next door neighbor, who was also a young man at the time, was convinced that the Holocaust of WWII never occurred. His method for forming that warped opinion? "I never saw it...so it didn't happen." He was serious. I tried to reason with him, but he would never change his point of view. In his case, his opinion reflected the fact that he was simply a moron.-
"My mind is made up: Don't confuse me with the facts."
The Missouri slogan ('show me') is valid in some cases - but not when the phenomenon does not, or did not, occur where the person could have witnessed it. -
Tim, you have me by the balls. I believe your absolutely right.
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@ Norski - did you come up with that? Because I want a t-shirt
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I'll take a shirt with that on it too, haha. XXL please.
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kevingoodman,
I wish I had made that up, but no: I first heard it said by my father, in a discussion similar to this thread, sometime in the late sixties or early seventies.
And - wouldn't it make an excellent T-shirt, though! -
I say it's fair game if it's that old
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I have some very acadamic friends, they are so dumb.. I rember watching one of them at a school working bee..he got banned from using a hammer -
Opinions are opinions. Some are moronic and some are brilliant.
Of course, Kevin, your opinions are brilliant.
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The flip side of the opinions=intelligence is no opinions=intelligence. I've run into that on campus, where the belief that having no fixed view on a topic shows great intelligence.
Except for pollution (my generation's global warming) and a few other critical topics, of course.-
I have visions of Buddhist monks on that statement.
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I think opinions are completely unrelated to intelligence. But, that's just my opinion. -
You have intellegience, common sense, and practical knowledge. I think all three are needed to create a 'well rounded individual'.
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Indeed at the time I attended University there was a whole elitist sect that professed to be of superior intellect because they refused to formulate an opinion on any matter.-
I call that the "Switzerland" mentality.
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I think Tim made a good statement on that and Norski offered a good example. We call it critical thinking or rhetoric but so many bad things have been done in the name of sound logic. When is logic really used to formulate an opinion and when is it used to defend an opinion? - does that matter?
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No, those who have strong opinions aren't necessarily intelligent. There might be a correlation between strong opinions that are supported by strong evidence and intelligence, but not a causation.-
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I have no idea how I passed statistics? But my papers sounded just like that
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Heh. And just imagine: This is my normal thought process.
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I can send you some of my Kava Kava wine - it slows things down
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I don't want to slow things down. The faster I crank out ideas and then come up with a way to develop them, the faster I can change the face of the world with inventions, and the faster I can retire.
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I think education and/or knowledge may equal intelligence.-
Knowledge is power but power isn’t always used wisely.
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With that, let's not forget emotional intelligence... amongst other forms of mutiple intelligences.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences -
I actually read Howard Gardners book on this. But it's been a while does this = empathy?
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With education and/or knowledge a person can then create a method to form an opinion.
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@Kevin said: I actually read Howard Gardners book on this. But it's been a while does this = empathy?
Yes, and you have it. I can tell. -
I think your half right. We need information but we also need logic.
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:), Global your giving me a standard - I feel challenged.
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People need comprehension, the ability to get the gestalt so they can effectively exercise higher order thinking skills, like critical thinking or analysis.
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While intelligence is an attribute that is widely referenced
and even claimed to be measured, there is no indication that anyone knows what it is.
We may come close to a definition hopefully in the future. -
@ jeunelle
I actually agree with you that we can’t measure intelligence unless we can also predict the future. Nor do we completely understand it. I actually think the Greeks came close by giving us rhetoric – tools/rules for logic. Problem is that rhetoric is also about persuasion. Because I convince everybody I’m right doesn’t make it right – right? -
@kevingoodman...Agreed..point taken.
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Opinions themselves are baseless as a measurement of intelligence. Intelligence does not necessarily mean your opinions will be based on logic, because if you are obsessed with an ideology even though that ideology has some base in reason it often means you refuse then to see the reasonable assertions made by others against your ideology. Or in this case your opinion.
I do not believe you have to be all that intelligent to use logic, just of normal intelligence, there are many who are of average intelligence who appear at times more logical than those of super high measurable intelligence.-
Good point.
I think genius is possible in anybody at any given moment.
That's just my opinion -
@Cooper thanks for saying what you just said.
@kevingoodman...genius is possible for anyone as there is a genius encased inside
each individual. The problem is activating the inner genius.
The genius must be coaxed to come out and play. -
Check out a book called Cracking Creativity by Michael Michalko. His techniques are really nothing new but they have encouraged me to partake in brainstorming and mindmapping on a regular basis as well as keeping idea journals.
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@kevin...Thanks I'll check it out, it should be an interesting read.
I'll pick up a copy from Amazon.
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Opinions are like butts, everyone has one and most of them stink.
A person who regularly voices opinions supported by logic and reason displays a sign of intelligence. An isolated opinion based solely upon emotion is just that, an emotional response. It neither indicates intelligence nor a lack thereof.-
very good. -
LOL, a well branded response.
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@CrotchetyOldMan...Emotion what about fundamental truths?
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Such as?
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How the heck should I know?
Ok such as Death comes for those who lives kind of truth.-
so what are you asking?
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Death isn't an opinion question.
Like poop, it happens whether you believe in it or not. -
@CrotchetyOldMan...Yes so wouldn't you say it's truth?
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It's a truth, but it's not an opinion question. It's a stone cold, put 'em on a slab fact.
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@CrotchetyOldMan...Exactly it is truth and not an opinion.
and since it's fact it sure helps to give strength to intelligence.
A person who regularly voices opinions supported by logic and reason displays
a sign of intelligence. An isolated opinion based solely upon emotion is just that,
an emotional response. It neither indicates intelligence nor a lack thereof.
However truth is different and strengthens intelligence far greater than something
that just has emotion and logic. A fact of truth cannot be questioned it just is. -
Unfortunately, the world offers so few facts.
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@CrotchetyOldMan...That might be so but still a very strong building block of the universe,
more or quantity may not necessarily mean better, maybe quality is a better word.
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@morgantj...No Further Questions. Lmao
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Does one who is intelligent have as many opinions as one who isn't as intelligent? More of less, equal?
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@morgantj...Don't ask me I'm the dummest one here, I know nothing. lmao
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I wasn't asking you specifically.
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Somebody crack my head with a pipe wrench.
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I think that's a job for Anok.
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Don't put yourself down like that, Jeunelle. It's not true.
Number of opinions related to intelligence?
Have you ever been in a class full of second graders? They have lots to say, plenty of opinions, and as dumb as stumps. -
@crotcheyoldman
and I thought she cleverly positioned herself as the archgenius. -
MOI an Archgenius...I've been called much worse.
I've also been kicked out of better homes. ha -
and I thought you was playing on the aristotle logic 'that all generalizations are false including this one'.
Because if you knew nothing that might make you some kind of super genius. -
Or just plain dumb.
I wonder which is truth and which is opinion? lmao
Maybe my gun is loaded and maybe it ain't. Oh Lord.
Alright that's it for me GOODNIGHT everyone, it's been fun. -
and now you see why I was looking for the pipe wrench. Good dreams, I'm following.
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@morgantj...I know you weren't but I was trying to make my exit.
@CrotchetyOldMan...I am trying to exercise humility. lmao -
usually opinions are based on ones experience~
hb~-
That's interesting but it also seems dangerous because it could lead to generalizations that are limited to personal experiance.
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not when you use your opinion based on your perosnal experience, using all your senses to come to your opinion.
Think about it generalizations are uausally based on quick thought!~ oooohhh
hb~ -
I absolutely believe in instinct but that doesnt change the fact that a girl beaten by her father might forever resent all men. Or a man robbed by a blackman might forever blame all black men. Sorry for the examples - but you get the drift?
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Plato argued, intelligence was a merely recollection from the past lives of the immortal soul. (Meno's Paradox) He was instrumental in questioning the difference between knowledge and opinion. For Plato, the notion of knowledge was related to human soul.
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Thanks I like that because it goes with Jung’s idea of a collective human consciousness based on archetypes. I interpret that as saying we are intrinsically connected to the past and a part of something greater and mutually shared.
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Plato - Jung - Yes, I interpret this the same way as you have. There is correlation.
Jung - collective unconsciousness AKA "a reservoir of the experiences of our species"
Durkheim - collective consciousness - shared beliefs and moral attitudes operating as a unifying force within society -
Jung believed this collective consciousness is understood by the individual subconscious so if we could facilitate a healthy relation with our dream side - we would have this intuitive wisdom that Harley speaks of above.
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@kevingoodman....isn't that just your philosophy teacher putting his opinion out there that he feels those who have strong opinions are usually less intelligent. Doesn't that kind of make him the product of his own example?
I have to answer your question with a question.....how are we measuring intelligence? What type of intelligence are we talking about....book knowledge or common sense?
Personally and of course this is just my opinion a truly intelligent person has both book knowledge and common sense. Also a person who is truly intelligent will be able to see the error in his/her logic when presented with a fact based argument.-
Cache 22 although I don't think he was being condescending but rather just trying to get people to think a little deeper and be more open.
But I agree that there are probably different kinds of intelligence and that logic is a part of it. But people have also done a little dumb things with facts and logic.
I really like the idea that any of us can of a genius moment.
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Opinionated people strike me as thick-headed and closed-minded to other and/or opposing ideas.-
Just because one holds an opinion, doesn't necessitate that they are also close-minded and/or wont listen to other peoples opinions. Everyone has an opinion about something. One can have an opinion and still be open-minded and listen to others opinions. They may very well change their opinion after hearing anothers opinion.
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A lot of psychologists that study attitude-change note that we have a need for consistency, that it is a virtue of the psyche. Being wrong according to these psychologist is less about the opinion and more about that deep psychological value and need for consistency.
I agree with Travis but I also know there is evidence that says if we have a strong position we’re not likely to give other ideas consideration or credibility.
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A great question. Our experiences in life alter our perceptions. That's why I question eye witnesses at trials. I have never been one, but I know when my husband and I are discussing something we both saw in general, we remember conflicting details.
JJ -
“Our experiences in life alter our perceptions.”
Interesting, so we’re all biased by our own experiences? From this perspective we should try to understand our own biases and why they are biases when examining our opinions?
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Sometimes it may be good to question on if it really is an opinion being voiced or just someone jumping to conclusions, or pontificating on a subject to make themselves seem intelligent to others
Like I just did -
Thanks, I agree with the first part of your statement.
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Strong opinions are often overcompensation for weak minds.-
You know - though, I know a few people who are good simple people and have no desire to be 'smart' but are very opinionated.
I think in many cases being strongly opinionated is not about demonstration but about what you have been taught.
But yeah having strong opinions can very much be a compensation too. -
Hey!! That was just my opinion...
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quite a strong one too.
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Morgan LOL The whole thing was meant to be funny. I guess it landed with a dull thud.
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But we still like you
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I know, I was joking too. *thud*
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I don't agree with either argument. Dogmatic types range from the most intelligent to the most stupid.-
yea, that is what I have been leaning towards too on this.
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I do think there is some 'truth' in the statement but only in that you have to be 'open' to see new truths or new perspectives.
You can be very opinionated and still be open to other ideas. But often that's not the case.
But then there are different kinds of intelligence too.
So I agree with but I think that dogmatic brilliance is rarer.
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I don't know if opinions=not intelligent, but I do remember in college that the least bright students were often great at BS'ing their way into looking brilliant.-
Did your professors catch on?
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Probably not until they saw their grades, because they had me fooled as well until the grades were posted.
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I was specifically talking about the kind of intelligence of seeing 'the truth' or realizing that there are different perspectives on truth.
But there probably is an intelligence to somebody who can convince us. The idea of different kinds of intelligence have popped up through this thread.
But that doesnt sound like your classmate were really effective at convincing either - at least in the long run.
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And here were are sharing our opinions on opinion holders. Does that make us unintelligent? If anything, sharing ones opinion can have the potential to lead one to become more intelligent, as it is way to expose ones flaws and have them out in the open to be corrected.
One must stand up for what one believes in, because only then can one trip over its delusion and hit ones head on the truth.-
Actually I don't think 'for the most part' people have been sharing opinions on 'opinion holders' (a few but not most) - I think it's been more an examination on a concept of truth.
But I tend to agree that we need others and contradictory ideas to flourish. I mean the bio's of some of the world’s most notable people - artist, scientist, and strategist - show that many relied heavily on others casual opinions in bringing out their own propositions.
As for this comment
"One must stand up for what one believes in, because only then can one trip over its delusion and hit ones head on the truth."
Do you feel belief has a right to be imposed onto others because it will somehow facilitate growth? -
[Actually I don't think 'for the most part' people have been sharing opinions on 'opinion holders' (a few but not most) - I think it's been more an examination on a concept of truth.]
The topic cleary queries our "opinion" for how we think "opinions" are associated with intelligence or the hinderance of intelligence and how it relates to the acceptance and perceptions of truth. Therefore, here we are sharing our opinions on the consequences of holding opinions.
[Do you feel belief has a right to be imposed onto others because it will somehow facilitate growth?]
Here we are sharing are opinions on this subject. Are we necessarily forcefully imposing our opinions on others. No. Are we sharing our opinions? Yes. Is it to facilitate growth. Yes. -
Yeah Morgan we're examining an opinion, your right.
But I think it has less to do with the person who said it and more about the idea. I am not objecting the word 'opinion' I am objecting that it be suggested that we're calling any person into question as saying (opinion-holder) does. -
If you take the person out of opinion, is it still an opinion? An opinion is personal. Now if you want to talk more about a general "idea" and its consequences in relation to truth then that changes the context enough to move the conversation in another direction.
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I agreed early on that this is a Cache 22 discuession and we could break it up and dissect and examine the language in many playful ways. But does it ever become too generalized or too technical? Like I said, alot of bad things have been done in the name of rationality. At one time science confirmed black people were sub-human - the nazi's did that too.
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[alot of bad things have been done in the name of rationality. At one time science confirmed black people were sub-human - the nazi's did that too.]
Anytime something is done, the one committing the action feels they have rationalized or self-justified their actions enough to go ahead and commit to them. But to rationalize doesn't necessarily mean their rationalization is logically sound.
When so-called witches are burned and murdered as they still are today in some countries, or a wife or daughter is murdered by a husband and/or father for being friends with an American soldier, the one commiting to these actions feel they have rationalized and justified their actions enough to commit to them. While they may feel their rationalizations are valid, most would agree that they were not sound. -
You’re absolutely right (in my opinion) and I’m going to expand my opinion.
The idea of science or philosophy isn’t to prove or disprove speculations (once again my opinion). Though it often begins that way.
I mean that to say that I don’t think science is evolution or is the big bang or string theory or relativity. I think it is the process, and the foundations for both critical thinking and the scientific method are well established. But these same principals especially critical thinking evolved from Greek rhetoric which is also as much about persuading as it dissecting truth.
I mentioned the psychology of consistency above somewhere and I think a lot of times even in the sciences that we have the: need to be right.
jjloch also reminded me that we’re all biased and that’s simply something we can’t escape. I like her example that her and her husband can see the same thing but then remember conflicting details.
Do you think a truth has a singular face? -
I do think that reality has a singular face, and all "truth" really is, is reality. We may never see reality the same as another because we are always having to look through our own dusty looking glass. This doesn't mean there are many realities or truths, what it means is that we are just referencing this one singularity from different points of view.
There are no ugly things, nor beautiful things. Only ordinary things. Things in which light and shadows highlight, and perspectives distort. -
On some levels I can agree and on some levels I question.
For instance we can consider Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung who suggest that the language of the subconscious minds is a symbolic language.
These men believed that many myths and legends and religions though very different often have a basic archetypal truth. Both of these men would probably be considered atheist and yet considered the symbolic language of religion and myth to be important to the human psyche. The both considered religions and myths as possessing innate truths that couldn’t wholly be rationalized because they were based on the language of the subconscious. These arguments might also go to say that the truth is limited by language.
On another example that’s a lot less metaphoric and interpretive we could look at the various concepts of multiple-universes put out there by physicist and cosmologist.
But even all these being true you might still be right. I think of the universe as a totality so I have trouble imagining a mult-verse or an infinity of multi-verse. How is there a beginning from nothing, how can there be an infinity, and so forth. For all I know reality could be akin to a computer program. -
Yes, I don't think what you have said conflicts with what I have said. Even this symbolic language is just that "symbolic," in that it represents, calls upon, is ultimately dependant upon reality. If there were no reality, symbols would not "be" nor have anything to symbolize. I think where people get confused with symbols is they mistake them for the reality that they are representing rather then recongnizing the reality they represent.
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The challenges of language.
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Most opinionated people are people who choose to think. When they then voice those opinions, they serve as the checks and balances in any conversation. In a hierarchically structured society, if we desire all levels to get involved in the decision making process then opinionated people are necessary at all levels. Otherwise, all thought, regardless of quality, would trickle down from above, unchallenged by those who work directly with end users (clients, customers).
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Timethief - your sounding like a public relations text book.
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"Most opinionated people are people who choose to think."
What about someone who is an ardent kkk member and is very opinionated about the issue of race and race mixing though? Do they fall into the category of thinking or just thinking what they believe is true? -
I edited out what I had to say about the moribund institution of the catholic church, the stifling of dissent, the flip back to traditionalism - Ratzinger - Kant, etc. And I'm now waving bye, bye.
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That's what I've been saying but I don't think TT meant think as implying intelligence.
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okay, was leaning towards that, but you know some people might confuse thinking with having a brain ahem!!!
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TT can you tell me exactly what you mean by 'moribund' because I could read it in different ways.
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"Timethief - your sounding like a public relations text book."
Indeed I am. I'm now choosing not to continue participating in this thread. It sounds too much like reliving University classes all over again, and I have work to do. Best wishes.
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It's one thing to have an opinion. It's another to be "opinionated."
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I agree!
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Maybe the question should be,
What do you think do Opinions = wisdom or hinder wisdom?
To use an example from above, a member of the KKK may have very strong opinions and at the same time be able to look at a plot of land and build a house from the ground up with their own two hands. Are they thick? A person with strong anti gay opinions may also be a professor teaching at a university. Someone who stands by a political party no matter how wrong they are, preaching to any who would listen, might have an adaptive mind which can work around and solve any problem.
I would be loathe to question any of the examples intelligence, but I would most certainly question their wisdom.-
Good points and the idea of multiple types of intelligence has been a recuring theme.
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I always like the saying,
" An intelligent man knows the cigarette he is smoking is bad for him. A wise man knows not to start in the first place."
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(1) Do we agree that opinion, sentiment, view are terms for one's conclusion about something?
(2) Do we agree that there are multiple ways to define intelligence?
An opinion is a belief or judgment that falls short of absolute conviction, certainty, or positive knowledge; it is a conclusion that certain facts, ideas, experiences, etc., are probably true or likely to prove so.
Sentiment (usually pl.) refers to a rather fixed conviction, usually based on feeling or emotion rather than reasoning.
View is an estimate of something, an intellectual judgment, a critical survey based on a mental examination, particularly of a public matter.
intelligence
–noun
1.capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
2.manifestation of a high mental capacity: He writes with intelligence and wit.
3.the faculty of understanding.
4.knowledge of an event, circumstance, etc., received or imparted; news; information.
5.the gathering or distribution of information, esp. secret information.
6. Government
a. information about an enemy or a potential enemy.
b.the evaluated conclusions drawn from such information.
c.an organization or agency engaged in gathering such information: military intelligence; naval intelligence.
7.interchange of information: They have been maintaining intelligence with foreign agents for years.
8.Christian Science. a fundamental attribute of God, or infinite Mind.
9.(often initial capital letter) an intelligent being or spirit, esp. an incorporeal one, as an angel.
[Origin: 1350–1400; ME < L intelligentia. See intelligent, -ence]
—Synonyms 1. See mind. 2. discernment, reason, acumen, aptitude, penetration.
—Antonyms 2. stupidity.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. dictionary.reference.com/browse/intelligence -
Most of us have strong opinions on CERTAIN topics -- the nonexistence of god to use current BC topics as an example.
I don't have any desire to listen to YET ANOTHER reason why I should believe. I've heard it all and would rather not waste time arguing about it YET AGAIN.
Does that make me closed minded? Or an efficient time manager?-
I don't know Jane.
You have a desire to express your opinion that you don't care so do you really?
But a recurring theme of this thread is that there are different kinds of intelligence. -
"You have a desire to express your opinion that you don't care so do you really?"
I don't understand that statement. -
You said
“I don't have any desire to listen to YET ANOTHER reason why I should believe. I've heard it all and would rather not waste time arguing about it YET AGAIN.”
Which you offered as an example of an opinion – I was just questioning the auspices of that opinion. You say you don’t have a (desire) to listen to ‘yet another’ - but you’re willing to create dialogue around that very position which you say you are against – which I interpreted as religious discussions. -
No, Kevin. I only used that as an example of something I feel strongly about. Similarly, I like Coke and don't like Pepsi at all. Nothing anyone says will change my mind. I'm not going to waste my time on such arguments.
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Thanks Jane. Hopefully you’re love of coke won’t inspire you to go out and poison the pepsi drinkers to prove that coke is a better drink
But I protest the casualty of your statement ‘waste my time’ because this has been a very positive discussion. -
As long as those wicked Pepsi drinkers don't make me sip that swill, we're cool.
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I don't think that there's anything wrong with having an opinion. The part that demonstrates intelligence is being open to other opinions and the reasoning behind them, then applying that to your own. Your brain can't grow if you keep it shut tight.-
I absolutely agree.
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I have always thought there is a difference between being "intelligent", and being "smart".
That said, I think Tim summed it up well with a great follow up from Norski way up above.
And yes, I want a t-shirt that says that -
That is funny - I think there is some place that will print it for you and then let others order it. We should do it
There have been some really great points here I hope to paraphrase later.
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I still like the "fact and/or truth adds volume to intelligence" part, even though no one
clearly has the correct definition of what intelligence really is. -
Stubborn narrow minded opinions hinder intelligence. Because Intelligence allows us to reason, plan, solve problems and to learn and stubborn narrow minded opinions doesn't allow any of these to happen.
buzz buzz-
LOL
Even though I oppose the words stubborn and narrow minded
I agree that being stubborn and narrow minded probably does prohibit reasioning, planning, problem solving and learning
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