Discussions
Is the Trinity Doctrine Fact or Fiction?
Posted by kingskid • 9/09/07 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Tags: Bible, christianity, doctrine, jesus, word of god
Is the Trinity fact or fiction? Can you show it biblically with scripture references?
Check out link: kingskid49.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/do-you-believe-in-the-trinity/
User Comments
-
The Trinity is fact! Just as we are Spirt, Soul and Body. God is one, Father, Son and Holy Spirit! An Egg is one and it's Shell, White and Yolk. Each has distinct and separate Charectaristics but are one entity!
Grace and Peace,
Ed-
I give you credit for trying. Most people won't touch trying to explain the unexplainable (the Triune nature of God) with a 100 foot pole. -
Thank you
-
-
-
-
Uri,
We are spirit and body.
The body and soul are
one and the same thing.
-
-
Sorry I'm no specialist on the trinity subject and I stay away from doctrinal argumentations (splitting hairs).
However to the question if a doctrine becomes fact or fiction I can say that a doctrine (not a dogma) is in effect when it finds obedience.
A doctrine stays a doctrine as long as there is a power behind it and supporting it.
When someone for example successfull riducules a doctrine (thus the power thats behind it) the doctrine can be put out ouf effect, thus it becomes fiction whereas a dogma always stays a dogma.
In using this kind of differentiation it is possible to describe the changes of validities of opinions (beliefs, ideologies) concerning basic statements.
Examples for this you find in the now 150 years lasting creation - evolution discussion.
Other examples for this kind of (actual ideological) warfare you find in Hollywood and other movie productions.
There are now movies gloryfying the war in Iraq ('King Arthur'), which I call aircraft movies, cause they are supposed to moralise the soldiers out there
and there are movies like for example 'Team America' which ridicule this war on terror.
These movies represent and reflect different kind of doctrines.
Ok. Have to split now. It's getting late in my time zone. -
From the comments I realize that I have used the wrong
words.
Is there a "God the Holy Spirit"?
Is this person part of the Godhead-Eliohim?
Will you, show him to me in the BIBLE?
Peace to All -
The Trinity is an article of faith held by Christian denominations that accept the Creed of Nicea. Some Christian groups (such as the Unitarian and Coptic Churches) dispute the Trinity doctrine. Non-Christians, obviously, do not believe it.
An article of faith is something one believes or one does not. It isn't a "fact" in the manner that a scientist, journalist, or historian defines "fact."-
Do you mean an article of faith like Good Friday,
Easter, Christmas and Sunday being the "Christian Sabbath"? -
Yes, KingsKid-- that's exactly what I mean.
The trinity is an article of faith for most, but not all, Christian denominations. It is a fact that you believe in certain things but what you believe is not a fact-- though faith might compell you to act as if it is fact. -
Then Ian, can we safely
say it is fiction?
A lie? -
"Faith" , "fiction", and "lie" all mean different things, unless you feel you can reinvent the English language and control how we speak and write it. -
If you make up the doctrine and know it to be made up then it is fiction. If the fiction is created with the aim at deception-- then it is a lie.
If you propose the doctrine as a means of explaining things already known or believed then it is a hypothesis. If this hypothesis is widely supported by facts, it is a theory.
If you sincerely believe the doctrine, then it is a conviction.
Articles of faith are convictions, neither fiction nor fact.
I respect that you believe sincerely in the doctrine, and while I have a fairly decent understanding of the doctrine, I simply cannot experience it as a believer does. It may be a sacred belief for you, but for me, it is one of many interesting ideas from the history of comparitive religion. So I can't regard it as a fact, but I don't regard it as either a fiction or a lie. -
Coptics do not dispute the Trinity Doctrine at all. They were in complete agreement. Where they differed was on Christology, the dual natures of Christ. When the Greeks said Christ had two natures the translation came across to them as "two persons" because their language (much simpler than the complex Greek) didn't differentiate between hypostasis and nature in the same way the Greek Languages.
-
-
what, the Christian one or the Hindu one?-
The Christian one.
The one that someone can show me in th Bible.
-
-
Luke 1:35 says "The Holy Spirit will come upon you..."
There at least one other reference at the time of Pentecost, but I don't have time to find Chapter and verse right now. If no one else has supplied, I will revisit this when the workday is done.-
I mean God the Father,
God the Son.
Is the Holy Spirit GOD? -
Well, God the Son is the begotten son of God, and he became so through the Holy Spirit coming over Mary and leaving her with child, so wouldn't that suggest that they must be one and the same?
-
Going from memory here, part of a confession of faith is "...the Holy Spirit, who proceeds from the Father and the Son."
A priest explained it as the Holy spirit proceeding from the 'conversation' between the Father and the Son. Don't quote me on that: It's a 2-decade-old memory.
The "Catechism of the Catholic Church" has a discussion of the Trinity: around 252.
I'll admit that I don't fully understand the Trinity. That's probably why it's called a 'mystery.' My lack of understanding doesn't bother me: it's just one of many ways in which I'm not like God. -
You're on touchy ground there, though, Norski. The revision of that line to the form you're quoting played a significant role in the split of the Catholic and Orthodox churches.
There's a bit of a complication in taking the language of the Creed at face value, given that in the chronology of the Bible, the Holy Spirit precedes the son and, in fact, brings about his conception.
It seems to me, in some vague sense that is probably the only one possible, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son but the Son also proceeds from the Father and the Holy Spirit. But, like every other human, I have only the dimmest sense of understanding and no authority on which to believe that I have it right. -
If you are interested in the Holy Spirit, I recommend reading the book by Kirpal Singh, Naam or Word. It's very clear and the Holy Spirit is in all Faiths, this is contrary to Christian belief but God is not limited to Christians only.
Some people think people need to change there faith or religion, I totally disagree, it's important to DEEPEN your faith and emrace the diversity of the way people experience God.
The Catholic faith has some wonderful examples of people that deepened their faith . E.g. St Francis, St Anthony of Padua -
And..if you want one of those things that you call an argument...I'll introduce you to my wife :-) :-)
-
-
The Trinity is nowhere in anyones Holy Bible, unless they wrote it there with a ball point pen.
Look up the council of Nicea, Constantine made it up to unite the bickerin peoples. lol
Rulers made this not God or his Son -
Ok try this
the Father represents the all inclusive God beyond time and thought
The Son represents an Embodiment of the endless formless God expressing as unconditional love and compassion personified in Jesus
The Holy Spirit...the creative Fire that lives and breathes in all creation -
and you know what. I don't think it matters what we think or believe about God. It's how we live our lives that counts. are we compassionate, do we live by the virtues expressed in the Sermon on the mount.
An opinion in the end is just an opinion and is meaninginless in the face of death. -
In the great commission Jesus said to baptize in the name of the father son and Holy Ghost,,,
yet Peter and the Apostles instruct to Baptize in the "name of Jesus."
Obviously, the three are one in the same.
Or what about when doubting Thomas worshiped Jesus, calling him "My Lord and my God?"
What about in the book of John when Jesus tells the Pharisees and Saducees, "Before Moses was "I AM,"
he uses the same identification as God did when he appeared to Moses in the Burning Bush.
I can honestly say the "oneness doctrine" makes sense to me.-
thomas was buried in madras in india
-
Interesting, I'd never heard that.
How did he get to India? -
The historical Thomas likely travelled to India by way of the trade routes that already connected the Mediterranean to India-- remember that this was almost 400 years after Alexander had pushed that far East-- and cultural contacts precede that as well--the Jewish Book of Esther begins with a description of the Persian Empire extending all the way to India.
The apocryphal "Acts of Judas Didymus Thomas" state that Thomas was brought to India in the employ of a merchant who had been sent to Jerusalem to procure a carpenter for a palace in India. As you can guess, there are a number of reasons why no mainstream church accepts this document-- 1.) it proposes Thomas as Jesus' identical twin, and 2.) it proposes a resurected Jesus playing practical jokes at his brother's expense as well as doing battle with a minor Hindu divinity.
-
-
It seems to me that the word "opinion" is getting a lot of misuse in this thread. There is a factual answer to the question. There are various schools of thought as to which factual answer is correct, and we are without adequate empirical evidence to demonstrate that any one is certain truth. However, "Do we know the correct answer and can we prove it?" is a very different question from "Is there a correct answer?" Not knowing the answer doesn't transform a question of fact into one of opinion.
-
Can only be proved by a person experience of God...everything else is just an opinion and totally meaningless in the sceme of things
-
Everyone's POSITION is just an opinion--but that doesn't mean it's not a factual question. The fact that we can't demonstrate or don't know the right answer to a question doesn't mean that there isn't one.
-
Look...when you break it down, the real question is ..What is God?
-
And the real answer is that although none of us has an answer to that question that is demonstrably true, there IS a correct answer--our lack of understanding or data doesn't change that.
-
i'm not sure if you reaize this but many people have experienced God
to say that no one has the answer is miles off the mark...
No one can verbally tell anyone what God is because God, although present in all things is beyond the framework of thought, outside the mind, and can only be experienced not spoken of but the God experience has been implied e.g. Jesus.
It makes no difference what faith or background a person is from, the experience is similar -
Let's see: Does that mean that, if I don't know the combination to a safe, there might still be a combination to the safe?
-
Norski
Interesting response...
If I'm getting the gist of what you're saying ...yes -
Norski: Excellent illustration. Thank you.
Acoustic: Purely a semantic distinction. My point was that people refer to the question of God's existence or God's nature as an "opinion" question because no one can prove that one answer or another is the right one, but there IS a right answer, whether we can agree on it or not. Naturally, many people believe themselves to have experienced God, and some of those people undoubtedly have--but the "undoubtedly" is my own belief, and not something that will be universally accepted. And then there are others who either believe themselves to have experienced God or claim to have experienced God, while the ideas they pass along seem to many of us to indicate otherwise; one example would be the Reverend Moon, who either believes or claims that Jesus told him that he had failed and appointed him to carry on his mission and try to get it right this time. All of which leaves us no closer to a DEMONSTRABLE answer than we were before anyone experienced anything. -
Beautifully said MadameX
The only worthwhile pursuit in life is the pursuit of God and once found, then God in action, and that in itelf is the demonstrable answer to the question...and there are many examples of this. -
Demonstrable only to one who "has eyes to see", hm Acoustic?
-
No no no...
I'm not into that spiritual dribble , holier than thou nonsense...
Look it's simple God is in everything, and beyond...Ramana marhashi, Jesus, St Terasa, Buddha, Krishna, Arjuna, Nisagadatta, Shirdi Sai
god's in the flower, in the laughter of children.. and resonates in everyone
it's so simple really
If God is, then God is everywhere
We all have the same eyes -
You seem to contradict your own position, Acoustic. First you said that God was "clearly demonstrable". Now you say that we all have "the same eyes" with which to see him. If both of those things are true, how do you explain the overwhelming numbers of people who do not believe?
2 + 2 = 4 is clearly demonstrable, and anyone with an average intellect who has surpassed the age of five or so has "the same eyes to see it", and we just don't see much disagreement on the issue. -
Ok maybe there are contradictions...and honestly it wouldn't bother me if there are.
When I say 'the same eyes' I mean...as humans, regardless of who we are, of religious or cultural background or intellctual ability, it is our bithright to experience something of a deeper nature than the world we perceive or believe to exist as the the truth or only truth.
when I say clearly demonstable I mean if you turn your head in the correct direction, Godward ( regardless of what faith you are) and dedicate every moment of your life to that quest, then it's clearly demonstrable. Without that commitment to transformation people are only guessing or creating or attaching themselves to a belief that suits their needs.
This is not about belief, and it's not my concern if people don't believe...in fact it's better not to believe because belief is not truth, it's something to keep you company while you don't know.
Better to drop all beliefs and only trust what you experience as the Truth.
Thankyou for taking the time to discuss this matter. It's a shame you're at the other side of the world, we could discuss this over coffee. I don't usually discuss this with many people. I trust my experience more than other people opinions.
-
-
Typo
personal experience -
This is a question of faith. Faith is suppose to be NOT arguable since it's all base on faith. -
if you are talking about something from the previous dialogue. There was no argument, an argument is emotional experience..i somehow started responding to something someone said and they kept responding so i kept responding. The last statement that she said sounded offensive...
I don't usually get into diagologues on the Spirit but it happened
quite simply God lives in all things...this is in no way arguable but is a personal experience
But faith is based in hope not necessarily Truth but I guess it may lead someone to Truth, but you'd have to find someone that that had happened to for it to be validated...i don't know about that-
Actually, an argument is a set of premises set forth in support of a conclusion. Any piece of text (or dialogue) that attempts to support the truth of an idea is an argument. No disagreement required.
-
and thanks for the info on an argument...I always thought that it was when two people (or more) get hot under the collar...I'll comfortably be wrong about definitions of the English language, as it really doesn't mean much to me. My wife is very fussy about that sort of thing, but I'm not. :-)
-
-
There seems to be ample evidence of the parallels of Christianity to previous religions (through scholarly comparative folklore) - Egyptian, Greek and many others - suggesting that Jesus is simply a reinvention/reinterpretation of the son god found in most cultures around the time of the beginning of Christianity. That being the case, the "Holy Ghost" could easily be interpreted as a subversion of the feminine aspect of divinity that Christianity sought to hide.-
there's many civilations gone by and no doubt that would have had great teachers
-
> the "Holy Ghost" could easily be interpreted as a subversion
> of the feminine aspect of divinity that Christianity sought to hide.
Except that in the Greek Orthodox Church, the "Holy Ghost" is feminine, because that just happens to be the gender of the Greek equivilent-- while in Latin, the word is gendered neuter-- and in English, only personal pronouns are gendered.
-
-
I am only throwing this in for arguments sake only, because I talk to God often enough that he knows what my beliefs and doubts are.
The author Harlan Ellison (HUGE fan of his) once stated that "if god does not exist, man would find it necessary to invent him" and "when the last acolyte of a God dies, then doesn't that God then die with him?" The second is sort of like the tree falling in the woods...if no one alive believes in that god, does that god really exist?
Also, in light of some of the more esoteric scientific theories of what the universe is (specifically string theory), is science on the way to proving a universe that would have to change present conceptions of God?-
Quantum physics and mysticism definetly meet...and the sooner the limited concepts of God are broken through, the better for all of humanity...religion unfortunaetly has been used as a control mechanism to keep people in mental and Spiritual poverty
We can still have Jesus in all his humbleness, brilliance and greatness but we need to discard the prison house that he has been kept in.
It's people like Father Bede Griffiths that I feel are extremely benificial in opening up Christianity to be a much more useful to the community. There's been too much emphasis on a crucified Christ and not enough on a risen Christ.
thanks for triggering the thought process -
Quantum physics and mysticism definetly meet...and the sooner the limited concepts of God are broken through, the better for all of humanity...religion unfortunaetly has been used as a control mechanism to keep people in mental and Spiritual poverty
We can still have Jesus in all his humbleness, brilliance and greatness but we need to discard the prison house that he has been kept in.
It's people like Father Bede Griffiths that I feel are extremely benificial in opening up Christianity to be a much more useful to the community. There's been too much emphasis on a crucified Christ and not enough on a risen Christ.
thanks for triggering the thought process -
It's funny, you are only the second person who I have heard express similar thoughts on the connections between string theory and God. You made some great points, and points I tend to agree with. The bad part is that most people get pretty upset when you broach the subject with them, as if science is trying to disprove the existence of God when it could, as you say, ultimately prove a more expansive, more omnipotent God. Thanks for the thoughts.
-
cheers...
where I live we have to have tolerance of faiths...my children are at a Catholic school...they hangout with the 7th day adventists, we eat at the Hari's, a lot of my friends are Buddhists and Chanted Hindu Mantras as kids, play soccer with Sikh kids...his is a short list...unity in diversity is the recipe for a healthy environment
-
-
three bear witness in heaven, meaning in the unseen spirit-only realm of existence, and those three are the Almighty Father, the Holy Spirit Mother and the Christ (annointed one) Son.
without Them, there is no Life or existence. Each one, does manifest into the seen realm, and we already have heard that the Christ manifested as Jesus the Man from Nazareth.
The Father manifests as Elijah the Prophet (one of the two witnesses of revelation, one of the two olive trees that are before the throne)
The Mother Holy Spirit manifests as the Daughter of Zion, the other of the two witnesses and the other of the two olive trees. The first Dominion of the manifested Kingdom of Heaven on earth goes to the Daughter of Zion.
Elijah and Doz will hook us all up! how? by feeding us the OIL from their lampstands!
read it all in the Bible, and let the Holy Spirit reveal the truths in the word to your heart.
I am very very very thankful!
nada-
Can you please reference your biblical passages regarding the Holy Spirit as Mother? This is a new one to me.
-
-
These responses are based on the Catholic Doctrine, which has so much paganism in it, It's not even worth trying to rebuttal lol
-
It's hard to know which responses you mean by "these", Zawadi. Your response appears under Lady Nada's post, but her beliefs are about as far from Catholicism as it is possible to be and still be in the tangential realm of possible Christianity, so I'm not sure where you're pointing.
-
-
I wasn't speaking about her MadameX. To be honest I'm speaking about the whole thread, but BC doesn't have a way for me to correct this post placement.
-
My thanks to each and every one that commented. Please come back anytime.
Check out this link kingskid49.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/do-you-believe-in-the-trinity/
Faith is vain, if it is in anything other than God. God said He would do nothing that He has not revealed to servants, the prophets. I have searched the scriptures and I have not found “God the Holy Spirit”.
The three that bear record in heaven, are the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (Angels). I have read about the throne of the Father.
Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
I have read about the throne of the son.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
I have read about the thrones of the Saints.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Yet there is no throne for the Holy Spirit.
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. : 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Being that the Holy Spirit is a ministering spirit, a serving spirit, he has no throne.
That doctrine is yet another devise of the enemy of mankind to “un-rightly divide the word of God’s truth. This is yet another attempt at deceiving humanity into calling God a liar.
Having said that, I can show you a trinity spoken of in God’s Word, however, it is definitely not holy.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
People read God’s Word
Peace to all -
Well this is an interesting discussion.
The Spirit of God that was hovering over the waters in Genesis, was that no the same Holy Spirit?
The "Comforter" that came upon the believers at Pentecost was an angel? Is that what you are saying?
When I read my Bible, it is very clear that God is God, that Jesus is God and relates to the Father, and that the Holy Spirit is one and the same as the "Spirit of God." The word "Trinity" is not important to me and I am sure we will all get new understanding when we reach the other side. But the fact that these three are one God seems "plain as day" to this guy. :-)
ThirstyJon-
"The Spirit of God that was hovering over the waters in Genesis, was that no the same Holy Spirit?"
Well, considering that Genesis is a Jewish text, the answer is "no" because Jews do not believe in the Trinity. However, a Christian reading the same text might instead say "yes." Though there are some Christians who do not accept the Trinity. It's never as simple as "yes" or "no."
"When I read my Bible, it is very clear that God is God, that Jesus is God and relates to the Father,"
But that is how you read it. Clearly not everyone reading the same text draws the same conclusion. -
....The Spirit of God that was hovering over the waters in Genesis, was that no the same Holy Spirit?....
God is the Ruler of everything. Take for instance an earthly king, do you see him carrying out every order that he gives or does he delegate to others while he remains on his thone? I would expect no less from our Soverign God and King.
....The "Comforter" that came upon the believers at Pentecost was an angel?....
Angels, remember the tongues of fire on each head,
Acts 2:3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost (WORD OF GOD), and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Peace
-
-
Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Comments @ ThirstyJon -
Acoustic, you just revealed you Roman Catholic upbringing with the question "what is God". That is Cataphatic thinking, where those who revealed the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity followed Apothatic Theology. Reading the authors you suggest to understand the Holy Trinity is like turning to someone from a Monarchist culture to learn about Democracy.
Recommended Reading "They Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church" by Vladimir Lossky-
thanks, will check it out
but really that question could come from any background
-
-
Acoustic, I agree Quantum physics and mysticism will meet.
I would like you to demonstrate "religion unfortunaetly has been used as a control mechanism to keep people in mental and Spiritual poverty" regarding the History of the East.
I also challenge you to show a superior method of uniting the Mind into the depths of the Heart than what is offered in Hesychasm.
I would also agree the west did not focus enough on the resurrection. Again, your western a'priori shows.
I also agree with there must be harmony in diversity. However, when someone from the west tries to tell those in the East what their ancestors believed I find that a bit arrogant and stupid. I don't go telling Buddhist how they should interpret their doctrines, I am not Buddhist.
I agree it is our birthright to have a direct relationship with God. The problem is we let our Soul become a slave to constantly pleasing our passions. The whole purpose of applying fasting and obedience is to free us from our passions and the tyranny of our self will.
I ran from Lutheranism and Roman Catholicism because of their legalism and the simple fact that Jesus Christ taught the Kingdom of God is Inside you and they couldn't show any path to gaining a realization of that. In fact, in the Palamite controversy the Roman Catholic Church was trying to deny that Man could participate in the uncreated energies of God altogether.
I can certainly understand why you would run away from that. But your claims that Christianity doesn't offer personal experience is so untrue. It is the core of it, from the very beginning. It's about Theosis, union with God, deification of man.
God became man so Man could become God.
The Orthodox Church doesn't Judge outside of it's own and doesn't deny the Holy Spirit works with those outside the Church. Never has. Please stop projecting your Pappist a'priori on the East.
NOTE: If someone within the Diaconate of the Orthodox Church breaks their vows that's a different story. But breaking of vows is a serious thing, if the person was serious to start with, that goes beyond relgion. I make that note so if you read where a heretic receives a banishment you do not mistake that as a judgement on someone outside the Church.
"God has crated us in order that we may become partakers of the divine nature, in order that we may enter into eternity, and that we may apear like unto Him, being deified by that Grace out of which all things that exist have come and which brings into existence everything that before had no existence" St. Maximus The Confessor-
driewe
"God became man so Man could become God" ** Whoa! According to the scriptures I read, we will never become God. In fact, this reasoning is EXACTLY what lead to the Fall when the serpent deceived Eve to eat of the fruit in the garden and the same lie that satan promised Jesus in the desert, where Jesus was tested for 40 days.
Please explain your scripture logic here and from what version of scripture. -
As I reread your post, driewe, I think you may be referring to the fact the it is "Christ in us the hope of glory" and that the "kingdom of God is within us". This refers to the amazing grace and mystery of the Spirit of Christ that will enter into the heart of man once he repents of his sins and confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
Are you in agreement or do you believe differently? -
Hi David,
you might find A Course In Miracles attractive regarding a more powerful or effective way to make room for the experience of God, and to speed up your inevitable transformation to homo illumina.
When I read your quote from St. Maximus The Confessor, I would like to point out that the statement does not follow from what God is. If God is whole and total, and therefore, man created in His likeness, then it is impossible that he has to become a partaker of the divine nature, or enter into eternity. He already is partaking and eternal. Otherwise the statement implies a God creating imperfect man who has to reach perfection. But what for would God do this? It would not make any sense.
That brings up the idea that the human condition is entirely false. It proposes an impossible situation from which one can only awaken, for it could not possibly be real. It is a dream of separation from God.
-
-
gods, thor, zeus, diana, mars... earth, wind, water, fire ... peace, love, war, poseidon, ...
:o)
Gods are names man gives to nature's things for make them friends -
Hi albran,
Actually we have a different intepretation of what it means to be created in God's likeness. First off, God is uncreated, man is created. God is Trinity, a community of persons existing in Love. The greek word is hypostasis. Man was created with Mind, Body and Soul not intended to Die. But because Man chooses the creation over the creator he has cut himself off from the Grace needed to sustain the original design.
God did not creat a perfect man or imperfect. Man was intended to grow in relationship with God from Glory to Glory. The limit is endless. It is a later western concept, probably started with St. Augustine who had some errors in his Theology.
"That brings up the idea that the human condition is entirely false. It proposes an impossible situation from which one can only awaken, for it could not possibly be real. It is a dream of separation from God."
Well the human condition as we start out in this world is exactly that, we are blind, asleep, our souls are slaves to our passions, constantly bowing to the desires of our flesh. We have to awaken from that dream.
I am very aware of A Course in Miracles. It's a basic recompilation of Rosicrucian Doctrine. Very dualistic, escaping from the Body, the complete person is body, mind and soul. Which are not in harmony when the soul is asleep and constantly wasting itself trying to appease the needs of the body. -
Globalgirl, I mistyped that it should be come like gods, and it is by Grace. Jesus himself quoted scripts and said "ye are gods". We also now that in the age to come we will appear in his likeness.
Sorry for that typo. The idea that we can become anything like God apart from his Grace (and repentance on our part) is not part of any Christian doctrine I've heard, Orthodox, Protestant or Catholic.
I just remembered something else, Peter says we become partakers of the Divine Nature. Going from memory, that has been interpreted that we, as created beings, are allowed to participate in the uncreated energies of God. Though we never participate in his Essence, because God in his Essence cannot be known by the Creature.
The kingdom of Heaven is within, but repentance (which means to turn about) takes effort. We fall, we pick ourselves up, we fall, we pick ourselves up... We participate in the Kingdom of heaven right here and now to the degree that we can follow Christs Commandments.
Think about it, if someone offends us, steals from us or slaps us, if we get angry and respond back with the same are we enjoying Christs peace? I don't think so. We have to work at that, and with Gods help, we grow in that grace.
Add Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
