Discussions

Kingskid: I didn't understand your question either.

We see the first mention of Nephilim in Genesis 6:4.

"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."

There is a theory that these giants were perhaps responsible for the pyramids of Egypt, Mexico and Central America Mexico and other ancient wonders.

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11/17/07

biobob

Greetings
Are you kidding me.
I was going to write something profound but, I lost my Neptrain of thought.
Biobob

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11/21/07

Do remember the "word of God" was only what MAN would allow, the rest is forever a hidden secret. No offense, but its the price you pay in organized religion. In my belief, nothing is hidden as the truth is all around me, in nature, in people and in myself. Blessings & light Summer-Raine
PS - My blog is about things like this...
www.summersland.blogspot.com/

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11/21/07

acousticguitarist

I'm in agreement...organized religion is at the core of many problems. It was the old way of control. The new way is through environment and energy, and I'm not saying that they are not issues because they are but thay are the new tools for control.

But organised religion can be a pathway to greater things. The greatest humasn being I ever met had once been a born again evangelist, but he kept going and on his way he embraced all faiths and eventually went past and way beyond them all.

There's a great saying "Good to be born in a church but don't die in it'
11/21/07

globalgirl

Tony, what kind of miracles?
11/26/07

ThirstyJon

Religion is icky. Knowing Jesus is excellent!

Moving past pharisee-like "evangelicalism" is good, but I hope your friend did not forget that Jesus is the only one who was born of a virgin, was God in human form, literally died in time-space-history and literally came back to life and will literally return in person to finalize the establishment of his Kingdom!

Religion - icky. Jesus - INCREDIBLE, AMAZING and REAL!

:-)

ThirstyJon

11/21/07

jaesten

They are a fact. They really exist in Noah's time. And they are the reason why God decided to have Global Deluge so that they will die.

They are a product of angel and human having an affair.

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11/21/07

Summerwitch

Wow - you sound so sure...
OK, so God made them, then decided to unmake them? Why ever did he make them in the first place if they were BAD!
11/21/07

jaesten

Summerwitch, God did not make them.
It is a product of human and angels. Meaning angels decided to turn their back on being good servants of God and came here in earth and transformed to human just to have an affair with women who they find beautiful and saw while they are still in heaven.

As i have said, they are the reason why God asked Noah to make an ark as he will bring great deluge on earth to erase them all. But as they can still transform back into their angel forms, they tried to escape by transforming but God did not accept them in heaven of course that is why they became angels of Satan or what we have known as Demons.

I suggest you read the whole book of Genesis. The full story is there...:)
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

God is responsible for everything projected onto the screen of life...but the underlying issue is 'What /Who is God?"'...and the response to that is not a verbal or intellectual response either
11/21/07

globalgirl

11/21/07

a mix of aliens and human

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11/21/07

Summerwitch

ha ha ha- have u been reading my blog acoustic guitarist? Yes, like humans & aliens I imagine! You can see why the topic grabs me!
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

no, but it's just so obvious. I'm serious
11/21/07

globalgirl

What do you think of David Icke?

www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/01jan/nephilim.html
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

He's borrowed a lot of material from all sorts of recources. I've read a bit of his material but am generally more interested in the source of the material. I think it's a mish mash of Truth, untruth, possibility and make it up as you go. There's no way I would base my life around that material. But I think that the intuitive part of ourselves is the tool for discriminating and there's no way I would rely on the opinions of others regardless how intelligent or learned they may be because information is always colored by personal bias and limited thought.

And I'm not convinced that Truth has to be the same for everyone. One person suits bhakti and devotion, whereas another suits devotion, and then you have people like Krishnamurti that arrives at a suitable conclusion and freedom by confronting the intellect head on. I'm sure the Christians will go to heaven and the Buddhists to Nirvana and anyone else to wherever they believe is the destination. But heraven is not my goal, nor is Nirvana...that's just a resting place, a comfortable limbo.
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

typo 2nd devotion = self knowledge
11/21/07

globalgirl

David Icke:
Yes, he has a great deal of information that is backed up by relevant sources.. and then he has some theories (ie lizards) that are way out there for me. However, he calls himself a white witch (as opposed to a black witch) and (as I hear some gasp) I find some of his sources very credible. He does provide a zillion of footnotes and other sources in his books.
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

the concept of being a white witch is very limiting, it's his choice and i guess he needed to define himself, but i get the idea. It does sound spooky for people that are unfamiliar with the term and have been spooked by 'THE DARK SIDE' :-)

I don't know his background though, whether he went through the Alice Bailey stuff or not. There are lots of people interested in him and many people have become frightened by predictions. He used to have a map of the supposed new world after earth changes. I'm hoping some of the continents move a bit closer so I can have better access to guitar shops, I've made a promise to by myself a new guitar every year.

I think reality is stranger than fiction, anything is possible and sometimes people see things that no-one else does and that's fine by me.

I think it's very important to see the humour in it all, other wise it gets a little depressing. I think they should have soccer games between the different religions and the winner can claim that their God is the greatest until the next game. Brazil will not be permitted to enter, they can just Carnival each time, otherwise it's an unfair advantage and we'll get the same God all the time.
11/21/07

globalgirl

Alice Bailey - The one who started Theosophy? Theosophy believes in a coming christ, a new age christ, an Aquarian christ, if my memory serves me correctly. Her teachings influence Freemasons. Correct me if needed.

This religion is in opposition to the teachings of the biblical Jesus, Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

11/21/07

Oh my greatness! Sorry girl, dont mean to upset you in any way. I do believe we all have a right to our beliefs , but I have to first bring up a question..
Why and HOW can any sane person calling themselves a christian, believe what you have just written to me, yet you dont believe in faeries?
Whats up with that! At least our faeries are alot friendlier and our tales full of wonder and joy.I have seen this "whatever you call it",and heres my truth. From my experience, it IS an angel. You may use this or trash it, your beautifully painted etheric images of angels are so way off. And so they should be. If you had to see a real angel you would believe it to be a demon. They taught you to think this way, and they created horror movies and trash to fill your mind with to instill fear (fear= control) Some things cannot be processed by our small, in the world human brains and this is why we make everything squeaky clean for our minds to accept them. Christians may not communicate with the dead, but they did it in the bible. Christians are not allowed to believe in the fae, but they sure believe the Nephilim story...open your mind my friend. Go within, as there are no lies there and no fear there. Blessings & light

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11/21/07

jaesten

Ummm..
We are talking about the Nephilims here if they really exist or not.
It only shows that you do not believe in the Bible.

Well if that is the case, no point of explaining to you as it will just create some clashes of beliefs..

And oh, Nephilims is way too far connected with fairies..:)
11/21/07

globalgirl

Summer: The Bible is clear that the spiritual world is very real, including angels and demons operating in our midst. The Bible is replete with miracles in the Old Testament and New Testament of amazing works beyond the ability of mankind, including healing from diseases, parting the Red Sea, raising the dead, and so forth. Miracles still happen today but these go largely unreported because they would give credence and validity to the message of Christ and the authority given in the Kingdom of God.

The Christian faith is a dynamic one. Beyond cognition but certainly an intellectual feast, as well as food for the spirit and soul.
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

I've had a life full of miracles
11/21/07

globalgirl

*I posted this question above, in the wrong place*

Tony, what kind of miracles?
11/21/07

globalgirl

Summer: You made a comment about angels being scary looking. This is correct. In fact, contrary to public opinion, in the scriptures we see that people were actually afraid when first confronted with angels.
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

The question arises...can a loving being have a form that humans might not find beautiful?

I think so, it's the perception that needs to change.
11/21/07

globalgirl

Oh that reminds me of a passage in Samuel: Man looks at the appearances and God looks at the heart.

We are a generation indoctrinated to believe certain forms are beautiful (thanks to Hollywood, marketing, etc). Yet, no one can really explain chemistry.

Oops, getting off topic.

11/21/07

kingskid

Not so, the sons of God was referring to the Sons of Adam, the daughters of men refers to the daughters of Cain. Luke 3:38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Matthew 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

Mark 12:25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Luke 20:35 "But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 "nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Angels do not procreate.

Either you believe the Bible IS the Word of God, or you don't. I choose to believe that IT IS.

Peace to All

"The LORD bless you and keep you;
The LORD make His face shine upon you, And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you, And give you peace."

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11/21/07

jaesten

Indeed angels do not procreate but because they use human bodies when they are here in earth while having an affair with human also, their wives get pregnant that soon became Nephilims. But those Nephilims are half human and half angels only. But they are so powerful.

So, when the deluge came those angels who came here on earth transformed into their angel forms again to escape, that is what i mean in my earlier post..
And their sons, the Nephilims died along with all the living creatures on earth that time except Noah and his family..

11/21/07

kingskid

Can you please direct me to the scripture reference that supports you opinion?

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11/21/07

jaesten

I am actually looking for it right now..

If you have a Bible right now, try to open it in Genesis chapter 6.. The story is there..

Oh i can see that it is the same chapter you mentioned in your first post here..

11/21/07

jaesten

The Bible actually did not focus on them that much as they were already been judged when God allowed the Global Deluge to happen.

And because they were known for being giant and bully, after the deluge, those who acted like them were refer to as Nephilims but it does not mean that they are "Nephilims"..

Am i making my self clear? he he he..

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11/21/07

kingskid

Yes, crystal clear. You do not care what the Bible says. Thank you for being honest.
11/21/07

jaesten

How you came into that conclusion? That i do not care what the Bible says?

Care to explain?
11/22/07

rinkydinky

wooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaahhh!!!!!!!!!!
take a chill pill kingskid.
I think its interesting to discuss our different ideas, but when it comes down to it, no one can be 100% sure, and besides, it dosent actually matter whether the nephilim existed or not.

I would like to think they did, as i plan to write a fantasy series based in the pre flood world, combining the bible with Atlantian myths!!! yyyaaaah!

I'm a christian and an emerging fantasy writer - rhysrodgers.com
11/22/07

acousticguitarist

That issue about not caring what the bible says is a very very strange value judgement.

11/21/07

A question, a genuine one.

Many cultural groups that are mentioned in the Bible/Torah are mentioned in other texts from the past.

Are you aware of the Nephilim being mentioned in any other historical text?

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11/21/07

globalgirl

Yes, one off the top of my head is the ancient Sumerian civilization.

Here is a book about it (I have not read this so I can't personally endorse this). Also you can go*gle and find more info.

www.amazon.com/Sumerians-History-Culture-Character-Phoenix/dp/0226452387/re...
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

thanks

Sumeria, that's where Abraham was from wasn't it?
11/21/07

globalgirl

The Book of Enoch a non-canonical text written sometime around the second century BCE.

…great giants, whose height was three thousand ells, who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. (Book of Enoch, VII:2-4)

And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth. (Book of Enoch, XV:11)

Nephilim also appear in the Book of Jubilees, another ancient Jewish text, written around 100 BCE.

And He said: Let the tenth part of them remain before him, and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation… And a tenth part of them we left that they might be subject before Satan on the earth. (Book of Jubilees X:9-12)
11/21/07

globalgirl

Abraham lived in the land of Ur, under Sumerian rule.
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

Enoch book is part of the Ethiopian book isn't it?
Queen of Sheba, she was Ethipopian wasn't she?
11/21/07

globalgirl

Yes, you are a student too, I see Don't you love knowledge?
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

I like knowledge but am prepared to dump the lot if necessary. I prefer person experience, it's more reliable. I know who I am.

11/21/07

Let's see what Wiki says too: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

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11/21/07

acousticguitarist

wiki is not a reliable of information because anyone can get in there and play with it, but I'll check it out

11/21/07

Research should be tied to reputable sources - I use Wiki to see what others are saying, but do not hold fast as the truth.

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11/21/07

JAESTEN my friend. You are so right. I do not believe in the bible. I do however believe in Jesus Christ so dont totally knock me here. You have just stated that the Nephilim & fae are I quote "way far too connected" , so what am I missing here? JAESTEN believes the Nephilim exists ( the bible told me so...) JAESTEN does not believe faeries exist..(cant be - the bible missed that one!) JAESTEN says " Nephilim & fae are way far too connected" , all I am trying to do is open your mind not convert you to any belief. I am a healer, an earth child, and very much in the light. It is people such as myself who are equipped to deal with such things that those of you fear.We KNOW they exist and work for you in the light , dealing with those things you fear too much to accept and protecting you from them. We love our earth and we love our people , and I cant stand to see how people are torn apart with one black book that you will believe to the death before you believe what is before your eyes and in your soul. I will not bother you again and wish you well on your quest for truths on things that will thankfully never really concern you.
Bright blessings

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11/21/07

acousticguitarist

I think it's important for Christians to realize that there are millions of people globally that do not be long organized religions that have a slightly different view but have a valid relationship with Christ. Father Bede Griffiths was a great example. Alan Watts also, Thomas Merton.

I'll be recording an album of Christian musuc at some point and also an album of Buddhist Chants, Hindu Chants and each one of them will be valid and genuine.
11/21/07

globalgirl

Thomas Merton, a Christian mystic. I enjoy his writings.

11/21/07

"Jubilees also states that God granted ten percent of the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim to remain after the flood, as demons, to try to lead the human race astray (through idolatry, the occult, etc.) until the final Judgement."
This is a pretty tricky God you got here, may I ask why a loving God would do this? Anyone?

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11/21/07

globalgirl

Summer, I am by no means a scholar of ancient texts, nor have I thoroughly read or researched the Book of Enoch. However, what I can tell you, according to the OT and NT, is that there are great powers in the spiritual realm and some works are not done in the name of Jesus.

11/21/07

Could it be the fae and angels are the same? Why must they be differentiated?

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11/21/07

Summerwitch

Thank you GLOBALGIRL for thinking that! Everything is actually connected. Different cultures and beliefs put different names on it, have different experiences with it, but the truth is, EXIST it does. In everything that was ever created there is good and bad, yin and yang, its not evil, or something to fear, it is balance. Why do christian people always chase evil, and speak of demons and look for darkness everywhere? It totally contradicts what they say they believe and I do not understand. Sorry for rambling on again. Remember I too am just an experiencer here and I really do want to hear your truths and how you feel. What you think does count to me as I keep what I need and trash what I dont. Blessings to all
11/21/07

globalgirl

Summer, I like to hear and learn - I think if people dig deeper and ask questions, there would be more similarities than differences. I find that people have a view of the Christian faith as being boring, restrictive, and controlling. However, it is the opposite: it is dynamic and freeing.

11/21/07

zawadi

If the story is from the Bible, didn't these Giants die in the flood?

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11/21/07

acousticguitarist

no they're all playing football :-)

11/21/07

heee heee heee hee!

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11/21/07

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11/21/07

zawadi

What Team? New England Patriots starter team maybe? Unbeatable !!!!
U better not be talking about Soccer lol

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11/21/07

acousticguitarist

gaelic football actually
11/21/07

globalgirl

No, no, Mayan games.

11/21/07

GLOBALGIRL - Cool , is there more about the angel stuff? I was actually working with angel cards in an altered state, I had flashes of a very barron looking place with these angels waiting around, or no, more like guarding, thats why it appeared that they wer just sitting around, they were grotesque and ver very large and their bodies wer muscular and almost crocodile like skin without the bumps. They were giants of note and they did have wings. More web like..like a bats but also very large. I felt peaceful seeing them as I had nothing to compare them with to make me afraid, if u know what I mean. I was in another realm if u will, there was nothing there for me to fear and I was not using the trained, brainwashed, fearful human side of myself. I know most people will think I am on drugs or need to be comitted, but I have nothing to gain or to lose by sharing this very personal stuff that belongs in my Book of shadows and not the internet. But I offer it to you as a fair trade for telling me about your bible knowledge. Blessed be

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11/21/07

globalgirl

I'll reference some sources later about angels. It is fascinating indeed.

Summer, throughout the OT and NT we see spiritual activity and spiritual gifts at work: discernment is one of many. The gifts and callings of God are irrevocable, meaning that whether or not one is following Jesus or not, they still have these innate gifts.

I venture to say that one of your gifts is the gift of discernment, the ability to see angels and demons.

11/21/07

Indeed I have seen the other too, and there is such a difference I tell you. Nothing like the horror movies make it out to be.I dont know if its alright to be talking so candidly about issues that instill such fear in others, but I find solace in the knowledge that perhaps others will also be less fearful in learning what I have learnt. The main thing is your faith. faith in something so simple that needs not a religion to back it up..it comes from within. A glowing light that the darkness fears , this is what I saw. I will post the whole story in y blog eventually but my story is still at the very beginning. I do not want to put all the deatils here as im sure u will all agree with. Only the seeker will read it. BB SR

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11/22/07

rinkydinky

ooooooooooooooh. soooooooooooo interesting!!
now here is a question. do you think all angels/demons look exactly the way you see them. like YOU look the same no matter who sees you.

or perhaps do they look different to different people, like they dont have physical bodys but the images you project of them are lucid and depend on influences upon you. Say if i get everyone in a room to do what you did and step into another plain of reality, would they all see different looking angels?

I hope i make sense.
11/22/07

acousticguitarist

apart from the oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh bit
:-)
11/22/07

globalgirl

Summerwitch, there are numerous stories in the Bible that indicate that angels are walking amongst us, in the spiritual and natural. Many times, when they manifested before people, the angels would say, "Do not be afraid" to the person they were visiting. There are so many references in scripture - I'd encourage you simply to do a word study: www.biblegateway.com

Angels are messengers, protectors, visible and invisible.

There is a famous story of Elisha the Prophet where he prayed that his servant would see the armies of angels surrounding the city, and the young man discovered that he had overlooked a host of invisible beings (2 Kings 6:17)

There is another prophet in the OT, Daniel, who saw an angel with arms and legs resembling polished metal and precious stones, and a face like lightning (Daniel 10:5-6).

And so many other examples exist then and now of angels amongst us.

11/21/07

What I am fascinated by is Christian that think you might be and Christian / God / Jesus if you don't have the same view as them.

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11/21/07

globalgirl

What are you trying to say? I don't get it.
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

I'll try again in better English...remember I'm a guitarist...I just read it back..it's dribble, it deleted as I inserted

What I am fascinated by is Christians that think you are ANTI Christian / God / Jesus, if you don't have the same view as them.
11/21/07

globalgirl

Some do, I agree.

At the same time, there are some people that dislike Christians because they follow Jesus (a blatant example: countries where one can be martyred for expressing faith in Christ). I hear about this all the time.

The question I have is why people dislike Jesus?

11/21/07

Maybe because it creates a challenge on how to live your life. Maybe because the churches have suppressed people into having a poverty mentality. Maybe for he same reason he got chased out of India by the Brahmins, because he makes the community question itself.

Probably a zilloin reasons. An acquantence of mine wrote lots of books about Eastern philosophy and was quite famous, but had incredible blocks with Christianity stemming from his upbringing. Another friend spent an hour with him one day and worked through it with him. That's all it took, one hour and he undid 70 years of conditioning. Both are dead now and both lived magnificent lives.

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11/21/07

globalgirl

Are you thinking about when God said to Moses "I AM that I AM"?
11/22/07

acousticguitarist

For me ...it doesn't matter at all because I'm comfortable with any name, but the conversation was about 'Jehovah', and there are numerous stories about that name and not all have been good to the surprise of some people. The point was that the what I'll refer to as supposed origion of that name was the name that the Jewish people would not or were not allowed to repeat.

11/21/07

jaesten

Wow! I love the on going exchanging of views and points here..:)

Summer, do not worry i am not offended or something, this is just a topic. And i am just telling what i know.
I am impressed that some of you really have references.

Now, i have read above a question i think coming from you acousticguitarist. The questions goes like this, What/Who is God?

Anyone have an idea?

How about what Psalms 83:18 said? It mentioned there that the name of God is JEHOVAH..

As of now, many of us believes that JESUS is the Almighty God and other believes that Son, Father and the Holy Spirit is one thus naming it as Trinity.

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11/21/07

acousticguitarist

As for 'What is God?'. It's not answerable by common language. Some people use the technique of Netti, Netti to arrive at that conclusion. Some use devotion, others Self enquiry, others self less service..the list is long, and some The Sound Current. But in the end none of these can be put into words and God can only be experienced, mot spoken of. But I'd assume that God is is omnipresent, if that is so,where isn't He/She/It?

The word JEHOVAH is not the correct word, it is an interpretation of another word
11/21/07

globalgirl

Yaweh?
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

Thanks but it's a bit more complex than that isn't it? Wasn't the name unpronounceable or not to be spoken of and the Christian faith called it Yahweh?
11/21/07

jaesten

Acoustic, where did you read in the Bible that Gods name must not be mentioned?
I think that the person thinks like that really don't understand what the Bible says.
God wants his name to be known to all and not to be kept in secrets. Nor he just be called in his titles like GOD, ALMIGHTY GOD, CREATOR and the likes.
I am going to give you later the Bible texts that support my claims. I just need to eat late lunch..

I my self believes that the name of God is Jehovah, the English translation of Yahweh which came from the 4 letters of tetragrammaton ( i am sorry about the spelling. )
11/21/07

globalgirl

Tony - Are you thinking about when God said to Moses "I AM that I AM"? (Ex 3:14)

Jaesten - Hi
11/21/07

acousticguitarist

It's Jewish tradition. I'm 99.99% sure

I never said any of Gods names, just that one in particular
11/22/07

rinkydinky

ah, but dose it really matter what Gods name is? I'm just a person but i have lots of different titles (Rhys Rodgers, Rinky Dinky, Mr Rodgers, brother, son, and alot of different nick names) I respond to all of them. God is GOD, so I'm sure he must have lots and lots of names. And i don't think he will particularly mind if you call him by a different name, he reads your intentions, not technicality's.
- thats what i think anyway.

11/22/07

RINKYDINKY - Good morning from South Africa. Thank you so much for the comments. That is a very good question you have asked. It would be super if others who have experienced what I did, come forward and answer this for us. What I imagine is that we may just see these "entities" differently from one another... As I said I was in an altered state, which as a witch we would call it "between" the worlds. We are not then viewing with our physical eye, but with our "third" eye if u will. I believe that the angels & demons can and will change form, especially if they enter our physical plane, kind of like "when in Rome, do as the romans do". I think when you are confronted or connect to these beings, we may see them according to what and where we are on the spiritual ladder. I know that I am a warrior when I enter their space, as I said, the angels were not intimidating and the demon was afraid. They also were not in the same "place" . The angels were very very far away. The demon was close. I hope I am making sense to those who know a bit about this. I dont know what the bible says about it, I fear that book (not the religion) has caused the biggest rift amongst the people since it came into existence.It saddens me. Here I am , trying to live a good life, helping and spreading the love without the bible in my hand, and others all over the world are murdering eachother with that bible because their gospel condones it? Why are the people not THINKING?

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11/22/07

Something a bit off the topic but NOAH is in there...its a bit of silly humour for us South africans

NOAH IN 2007

In the year 2007, the Lord came unto Noah, who was now living in
Australia, and said, "Once again, the earth has become wicked and
Over-populated, and I see the end of all flesh before me.

Build another Ark and save 2 of every living thing along with a few
good humans."

He gave Noah the blueprints, saying, "You have 6 months to build the
Ark before I will start the unending rain for 40 days and 40 nights."

Six months later, the Lord looked down and saw Noah weeping in his
yard - but no Ark.

"Noah!" He roared , "I'm about to start the rain! Where is the Ark ?"

"Forgive me, Lord," begged Noah, "but things have changed. I needed a
building permit. I've been arguing with the inspector about the need
for a sprinkler system. My neighbors claim that I've violated the
zoning provisions of my property by building the Ark in my yard and
exceeding the setback limitations. We had to go to the VCAT for a
decision.

Then the electricity company demanded a bond be posted for the future
costs of moving power lines and other overhead obstructions, to clear
the passage for the Ark 's move to the sea. I told them that the sea
would be coming to us, but they would hear nothing of it.

Getting the wood was another problem. There's a ban on cutting local
trees in order to save the spotted owl. I tried to convince the
environmentalists that I needed the wood to save the owls - but no go!

When I started gathering the animals, PeTA sued me. They insisted that
I was confining wild animals against their will. They argued the
accommodation was too restrictive , and it was cruel and inhumane to
put so many animals in a confined space.

Then the DSE ruled that I couldn't build the Ark until they'd
conducted an environmental impact study on your proposed flood.

I'm still trying to resolve a complaint with the Human Rights
Commission on how many minorities I'm supposed to hire for my building
crew.

Immigration and Naturalization are checking the Visa status of most of
the people who want to work. The trades unions say I can't use my
sons. They insist I have to hire only Union workers with Ark-building
experience.

To make matters worse, the ATO seized all my assets, claiming I'm
trying to leave the country illegally with endangered species.

So, forgive me, Lord, but it would take at least 10 years for me to
finish this Ark. "

Suddenly the skies cleared, the sun began to shine, and a rainbow
stretched across the sky.

Noah looked up in wonder and asked, "You mean you're not going to
destroy the world?"

"No," said the Lord. "The government beat me to it ."

[reply]

11/22/07

acousticguitarist

very funny punch line
11/26/07

ThirstyJon

Now THAT was funny! Did you write that yourself?

:-)

ThirstyJon

11/22/07

GLOBALGIRL - Thanks Im onto it. Oh my, you say they were guarding the city...told u they were guarding something...deep stuff!

[reply]

11/22/07

globalgirl

Summer, I'd like to hear more of your story.. is it on your blog?

11/22/07

Sorry Globalgirl...I cant do it! All I see is the very reason I dont even own a bible. I refuse to ever believe that this is Your God who did these things. I would rather hear from you guys than hear of this terrible stuff coming from a loving God! Someone has lost the plot. No wonder our people do the murdering in the name of God. The bible is the friggin guide book! Sorry if I upset anyone but I AM UPSET! Read this....

44 He turned their rivers to blood;
they could not drink from their streams.

45 He sent swarms of flies that devoured them,
and frogs that devastated them.

46 He gave their crops to the grasshopper,
their produce to the locust.

47 He destroyed their vines with hail
and their sycamore-figs with sleet.

48 He gave over their cattle to the hail,
their livestock to bolts of lightning.

49 He unleashed against them his hot anger,
his wrath, indignation and hostility—
a band of destroying angels.

50 He prepared a path for his anger;
he did not spare them from death
but gave them over to the plague.

51 He struck down all the firstborn of Egypt,
the firstfruits of manhood in the tents of Ham.

52 But he brought his people out like a flock;
he led them like sheep through the desert.

53 He guided them safely, so they were unafraid;
but the sea engulfed their enemies.

54 Thus he brought them to the border of his holy land,
to the hill country his right hand had taken.

55 He drove out nations before them
and allotted their lands to them as an inheritance;
he settled the tribes of Israel in their homes.

56 But they put God to the test
and rebelled against the Most High;
they did not keep his statutes.

57 Like their fathers they were disloyal and faithless,
as unreliable as a faulty bow.

58 They angered him with their high places;
they aroused his jealousy with their idols.

59 When God heard them, he was very angry;
he rejected Israel completely.

60 He abandoned the tabernacle of Shiloh,
the tent he had set up among men.

61 He sent the ark of his might into captivity,
his splendor into the hands of the enemy.

62 He gave his people over to the sword;
he was very angry with his inheritance.

63 Fire consumed their young men,
and their maidens had no wedding songs;

64 their priests were put to the sword,
and their widows could not weep.

65 Then the Lord awoke as from sleep,
as a man wakes from the stupor of wine.

66 He beat back his enemies;
he put them to everlasting shame.

67 Then he rejected the tents of Joseph,
he did not choose the tribe of Ephraim;

68 but he chose the tribe of Judah,
Mount Zion, which he loved.

Alas, I rest my case.

[reply]

11/22/07

globalgirl

You ask very provoking questions. This is good.

11/22/07

Oh Summer... There is a lot there... and I agree, one can't fully discuss passages out of context.. Meaning, that these passages can only be explained by understanding the whole. Does that make sense?

There is a story from beginning to end... and I can see the heartache of taking out a passage like this and feeling upset.. without understanding what precipitated this passage.

Right now, I don't have the time. But know there is the "rest of the story"

[reply]

11/22/07

Another example of a loving God? I will never turn away a sick or ailing person, I will emrace them flesh to flesh in love! How about you?

Numbers 5
The Purity of the Camp
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Command the Israelites to send away from the camp anyone who has an infectious skin disease [a] or a discharge of any kind, or who is ceremonially unclean because of a dead body. 3 Send away male and female alike; send them outside the camp so they will not defile their camp, where I dwell among them." 4 The Israelites did this; they sent them outside the camp. They did just as the LORD had instructed Moses.

[reply]

11/22/07

They were contageous.. I think, I may be wrong, that there was leprosy in the camp here.

Jesus had compassion upon the sick... he healed them all the time.. moved with great compassion for the suffering, sick and poor. Jesus and his disciples performed miracles all the time.

[reply]

11/22/07

Summerwitch

Yes - but thats Jesus , the man in the plot.Not God. I believe he was a wonderful, loving kind man who got caught up in their fairytale, I can relate to him, but not the God the bible depicts!They were contagious...is this how a loving God treats the sick while the man, Jesus can actually go to them and heal them?

11/22/07

Ok, enough of that then. If I did read the whole story I still will never see..its like the story of the emporer with no clothes. Im the boy who shouts " the emporer is naked". Thank you for trying to make me understand. I am busy with WHO IS SUMMER-RAINE ANYWAY...we will get to all the deep stuff so keep watching. Bless u all!

[reply]

11/26/07

ThirstyJon

Hello Summer!

Interesting thoughts you present.

I am convinced that Jesus is God. The same God as that of the "Old Testament." I am convinced that that same God is good, as He proclaims Himself to be in Exodus: "Gracious and Compassionate God, Slow to Anger, Abounding in Love and Faithfulness, Forgiving Wickedness, Rebellion and Sin..."

It goes on to talk about "not leaving the guilty unpunished."

I believe the Good, Real, Loving, Kind Creator, One-True God of the Old and New Testament has a major problem to solve. He loves these kooky creatures called "mankind" so much and wants to bless them with good stuff, yet they are so stubborn and are determined to wreck it all.

One day I was thinking on this situation that we have put God in. There seems to be a "cry for justice" in all of our hearts. We see the innocent violated, we see wickedness done and our hearts say "God, DO SOMETHING!"

What we don't realize is that if God over-ruled all of the wickedness of man it would include ME (and if you take a close look - YOU). In other words, the only way God could eliminate suffering and evil in the world would be to eliminate human beings completely. We were given rule of the place all the way back in Genesis, and we are screwing it up.

God's situation: I love humans, I want to bless humans, yet I am committed to eradicating evil which because of Human Choice requires the eradication of Humans! AAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! The pain-filled heart cry of God fills all eternity.

So He decided to fulfill Justice by becoming a man Himself. The very Jesus we have talked about. He took the Eternal Justice and Ultimate Consequence due each individual in the Human Race and SUFFERED it. Death by Cruel Roman Whipping and Crucifixion included.

But wait!

THEN...

Then -in real time/space/history- He also "Beat the Snot" out of Death itself! He came back to life as a RESURRECTED Human! The First Born from the dead!

Then he flew threw the sky leaving a group of fisherman and followers with the Commission to retake the World for Good by telling everyone about Him, living like Him, even if they also SUFFERED.

Then God Himself (the same God that is Jesus, and is the God of the Old Testament) poured Himself out of the Heavenlies and FILLED and lived INSIDE of these "little Jesus's" (Christians).

Religion was destroyed at this moment. (Trying to follow rules or customs or good works to get to God is RELIGION) Jesus was the anti-religion, the Death of Legalism, the final blow to RULES of DEATH.

I am into this guy Jesus. He is my Liberator. Because of Him I don't have to face a Truthful Judgment that would wipe me out immediately as PART OF THE PROBLEM here on this planet!

Instead I get God Within Me! (not some "force" or "universal spirit", but the REAL, CONCRETE and POWERFUL Creator God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) I get to be filled and slowly transformed into something GOOD! Someone who is now becoming PART of the SOLUTION!

God Himself has intervened and their is hope for the Human Race to stop destroying the Human Race. We can be changed from the inside out by HEARING and BELIEVING the True Story about Jesus! We can Know God now! In our hearts and in our minds!

We can KNOW the One-True God of the Universe and be changed because of Jesus! (Or Yeshua as Jews who recognize their Messiah would say)

Ok. Time for me to slow down and sign-out here. I didn't make this story up. God Lived it into the world through Jesus as testified to by the New Testament of the "Holy Book." Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Phillipians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, I Peter, II Peter, I John, II John, III John, Jude, and Revelation.

Jesus is worth investigating!

If you are content with what you have, I am not threatened by that at all. I don't need you (or anyone else) to believe me. But I wish you would consider Jesus in a different light. I hope you encounter Him, not as a subjective experience or "matter of opinion," but as the Living and Real Creator God of all the Cosmos, and your potential Saving and Best Friend!

:-)

ThirstyJon

11/22/07